Am used to the twist grip stick so the paddles could be freed up from that. Choose another country or region to see content specific to your location and shop online. over all i am very disappoint it was a lot of good features but feels as if it was made by aliens with non human hands. Tune in for an equipment review on what should probably be in your shopping . The throttle doesn't feel cheap even though it's a bit lightweight. Its striking orange accents and backlighting bring gamers immersion to a whole new level. The helical spring (0.1"/2.8 mm diameter) located inside the stick delivers firm, linear and smooth tension. I have a new question. Profile - T.16000M Duo - Elite Dangerous, T.A.R.G.E.T. Overall, a good throttle especially for those on a budget. Even when using profiles FROM THRUSTMASTER, as soon as TARGET creates the Thrustmaster Combined virtual device, both sticks stop working - completely. The T.16000M FCS HOTAS is composed of the T.16000M FCS (Flight Control System) flight stick and the TWCS (Thrustmaster Weapon Control System) throttle. Star Citizen Hotas Mapping Guide. Full content visible, double tap to read brief content. Was accurate, comfortable and Bought this in May 2018, it failed in June 2019. Release notes. The T.16000M FCS HOTAS is compatible with PC via USB in Windows 10, 8, 7 and Vista (32-bit and 64-bit). Yes, also Elite Dangerous has a built-in profile to get you started. Small disclaimer, file is subject to change since i still have to take the Apache for a spin with those settings, so the final config might change depending on what i will think is necessary, and has different priority. http://ts.thrustmaster.com/download/accessories/manuals/T16000M/T16000M-User_manual.pdf, http://ts.thrustmaster.com/download/accessories/manuals/TWCS_throttle/TWCS_Throttle_Manual_All.pdf. Google has turned up empty except for one guy who had to modify his stick with a pinky switch and a button on top of the stick and I don't eel like tearing up a new joystick to do that. Any suggestions for improvements or constructive criticisms are very welcome. Feedback is also appreciated. The T.16000M FCS HOTAS has been designed for advanced fliers looking for comprehensive, realistic controls as an alternative to using a mouse and keyboard. The trigger on the 160000 has a long travel time which would have been a good thing, if it dident feel like it was going to snap off b/c of the amount of give it has left to right. Powered by Invision Community. I have used this HOTAS with Elite Dangerous for SEVERAL Years and have had NO issues with , Customer Reviews, including Product Star Ratings help customers to learn more about the product and decide whether it is the right product for them.Learn more how customers reviews work on Amazon. The TWCS throttles lower positioning compared to quadrant-based systems provides unrivalled comfort. Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX. This is part review for this stick, and part comparison of it between other sticks. I do need an illustration, though, to remind me what goes where. All rights reserved. Does anyone have a profile for the A-10c they would like to share??? But this "virtual" button on axis can be used only though keypress, not as DX buttons - is not visible in games controls. Reviewed in the United States on January 3, 2023. A brand new stick and throttle? Also, you can't individually throttle left or right engine using the T.16000M. How long is the cord between the throttle and flight stick? I even used this HOTAS Bundle playing Arma 3 and other games where it is supported. The center button for Master switch which I can probably do better at. Fantastic work! January 28, 2017 in Input Devices. Please. WTF? . It really feels like a dream to fly with the only officially licensed Boeing Yoke. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS Change. Pressed the "go" button. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. But the Warthog is so different it won't do. * Sold separately. But I'll be damn pressed to find another at this price point that is this good and offers these features. Exactly. Feel - The joystick is perfect, I haven't had any calibration issues with it being off center so far. Need some advice on setting up the controls for the AH-64D Apache for Thrustmaster T16000M FCS, without Rudder pedals. PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM. Thrustmaster Warthog default control profile in A10C and A10C II is full of unassigned commands and wrong assignments . By Kolin314, January 30, . I am still using the stick 8 way for head slew but an EDTracker is in the mail and will soon free that up. Does anyone know a solution. I've finally gotten everything perfect. Thanks to the very long range of travel on the rudder axis, the result is an extremely precise steering control mechanism for perfectly-proportioned maneuvers. TWCS (Thrustmaster Weapon Control System) throttle: use your left hand to increase your combat speed and manage your spaceship or jet fighter. Looking at my steam playtimes I have 190 hours into this joystick before it failed. A match made in heaven or at least up in the clouds The TCA Yoke Boeing Edition & the TCA Quadrant Boeing Edition: accessories that make your flight simming experience feel like a dream. For some reason it wont let me assign it to anything other than pitch roll and yaw. Last thing, probably a stupid question, but does the Apache has some kind of trimmer reset button? Bought this for my bf for Christmas since he was looking to play games in vr that involved flying aircrafts. Those are covered by the Weapons Action Switch. Thrustmaster is proud to introduce the T.16000M FCS Space Sim Duo, the combination of two Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS joysticks a fully ambidextrous combination for an outstanding space simulation experience! Hocas Cursor Controller X and Y Axis (Y Axis Inverted). Do you mind sharing your other modules? Hi all. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. Google has turned up empty except for one guy who had to modify his stick with a pinky switch and a button on top of the stick and I don't eel like tearing up a new joystick to do that. . Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS controls and setup guide - Do everything from the HOTAS without needing Keyboard/Mouse . Its striking orange accents and backlighting bring gamers immersion to a whole new level. I'm using a very similar setup with my T16000M for trim, 2 and 4 (because I'm flying with the left hand). The rails unique design ensures totally smooth sliding motion, working in conjunction with a self-centering rudder axis: the combination of these two elements provides the perfect balance between smoothness and resistance for re-centering. Also, I can't find the RocketsGunand Hellfire at ControlsI really appreciate your help! I studied I.T. Does anyone know a solution? 1991-2022, Eagle Dynamics SA The "KNEEBOARD" folder has to be copied into your "Saved Games\DCS (or DCS.openbeta)\" directory. There are button everywhere and nothing gets in the way and every button makes sense and nothing is missing. When its on the twist grip, the Apache is wobbling around too much. Thrustmaster teams are here to help you! Feel free to use the pdf cheat that is in this thread to make out the profile on Mirage and Viggen. Its probably in no way perfect, but if someone finds it useful, please feel free to use those settings. Profile - FCS Hotas - War Thunder, T.A.R.G.E.T. *Free of charge, available for download from the http://support.thrustmaster.com website. Did. The T.16000M FCS features 4 independent axes, including twist rudder (controlled by rotating the stick), 16 action buttons with braille-style physical button identification, one 8-way Point of View (PoV) hat switch and an ergonomic trigger. Intel 7, Asrock Z270 and all the other goodies. This makes it really easy to know what button you're pressing while in VR (Otherwise I would never know what I'm pressing without looking) - The thumb / index finger buttons on the top of the joystick are really intuitive to use in VR as well. Very happy with it! Conclusion: Do not rely on TARGET, and do not rely on Thrustmaster Customer support actually resolve an issue. Consider this a beginner's kit. Your input? And wouldn't it be great to map the speed brake to that paddle or the rotary? To give simmers complete control, the TWCS throttle includes 14 buttons and one 8-way-PoV hat switch that are added to those of the joystick. Your question might be answered by sellers, manufacturers, or customers who bought this product. The T.16000M FCS Space Sim Duo is designed to allow simultaneous use of both left and right hands. are yours? Good throttle, stick needs BIG improvements, Reviewed in the United States on April 26, 2021. The little analogue stick on the throttle is probably the only thing I would change in the design. This setup has everything you need for flight sim games, including lots - and I mean lots - of buttons. Because i am either blind, or not able to find it. The T.16000M FCS FLIGHT PACK has been designed for advanced fliers looking for comprehensive, realistic controls as an alternative to using a mouse and keyboard. Thrustmaster Advanced programming Graphical Editor software: combine the joysticks with other Thrustmaster devices (so that they are recognized as a single USB device), and load or create mapping profiles for each game. I knew that a Youtuber I watched was sponserd by thrustmaster, so went to there affiliates link to see what they had in stock and, thought that this joystick was perfect but after it arrived I was sorely disappointed. It is actually a good thing due to a proper design so be happy about that. This enhanced access to flight controls proves even more essential when players are fully immersed in the exceptional flight experience delivered by VR-compatible games.Intuitive and natural: feels just like sitting in the cockpit! It feels a little loose (basically barely any tension on it) though I adapted and got used to it. )Magnets ensure friction-free action for razor-sharp precision that wont decrease over timeHelical spring (0.1 / 2.8 mm in diameter) inside the stick providing firm, linear and smooth tensionFully ambidextrous joystick!3 removable components allow the joystick to be perfectly tailored for left-handed or right-handed usePiloting with a joystick in each hand is now possible in all games compatible with two joysticks16 action buttons with braille-style physical button identification!12 on the base and 4 on the stick + one 8-way Point of View hat switchSwitch allowing users to configure the 12 buttons located on the base in a left- or right-handed position4 independent axes, including twist rudder (controlled by rotating the stick)Ergonomic trigger for brake (civilian flight) or rapid fire (military flight, space simulation) controlMultidirectional hat switch (for panoramic view)Ergonomic design for optimum comfortWide hand rest for reduced stressWeighted base for enhanced stability, WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including Bisphenol A which is known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm. My layout is still WIP, so a lot of buttons are still not mapped, but i need some feedback if I am doing it the right way. Keep in mind that if you get the Rudder Pedals (which really aren't a must have but I love them) you will need to buy an extra dongle (POWER CORD 15A 125V 3') for about $30CAD. Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS Controller . I've bought only the joystick but I feel that the x56 Rhino will be a better solution. i don't just know wich button chose and, or configure it. Skip to the beginning of the images gallery. eshop.thrustmaster.com offers you a 100% secure payment solution. Thank you. Thanks to its design and ergonomics, the T.16000M FSC HOTAS provides players with multiple recognizable features, allowing them to become more effective and accurate when in flight. Motherboard: MSI X470 GAMING PLUS. I use T.16000M and I give it my seal of approval. The action feels really good and you get a nice array of options between axis's and buttons/switches. On-wheel telemetry. I do have 2 planes, one Viggen and one Mirage. None of their fixes worked. (8 directions). Hi all. Was accurate, comfortable and works very very well with games like Elite Dangerous. It works much better this way (it worked with the Huey and KA-50). Thrustmaster Advanced pRogramming Graphical EdiTor software: combine with other Thrustmaster devices (so that they are recognized as a single USB device), and load or create specific mapping profiles for each game. These products are part of a range of flight simulation peripherals that can be used in conjunction with one another: a complete ecosystem featuring the FCS flight stick, TWCS throttle, TFRP rudder pedals* and MFD* (Multi-Functional Display) cockpit panels. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Valve Corporation. Below the axis settings, that I also use for the Huey. Its twisting handle controls the rudder by default, but can also be locked in place. Ah I already got the combo. (length/width/height) (cm) 21.4*22.0*24.2. Thats a good argument, thanks! I was starting to get a little overwhelmed. Flight hands-on-throttle-and-stick ( HOTAS ) X joystick is brilliant. Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, AJS-37 Viggen , AV-8B Night Attack V/STOL , F-5E Tiger , L-39 Albatros. Three detachable components allow both joysticks to be perfectly tailored to both left-handed and right-handed players, in all PC games. If the joystick didn't fail I'd say its an excellent joystick with good value for money, but with the longevity of it, I cannot recommend it. Good construction quality, feels good. Cons: 1. The settings are not mine. Yes immune are plugged into the throttle all you have to do is just edit the axis and then uncheck inverted. It is actually very good. They are more popular for "Kosmosimov" players. T-Flight Hotas X or so. Its true, its just over a month out of warranty, but I was hoping for a little more help, even some things that I could try to get my joystick working again. Say goodbye to stick drift & replacement controllers; say hello to the top of the leaderboards with the ESWAP S PRO CONTROLLER. Buttons - The 12 bottom buttons on the Joystick have these little dots on them, the middle button on each side having 2 dots popped out (The top row don't have or need the popped out dots as they are just above the row that have them). Windows 10. Bought by wife for husband for Microsoft flight sim, Reviewed in the United States on December 31, 2022. The twist axis is good enough so that rudder pedals aren't absolutely needed when flying either Su-25T or Ka-50. Compatibility checker. ARRRRUGH! I bought this product in order to play Flight and Space Simulators. I recommend writing them if you get this problem.. This is part review for this stick, and part comparison of it between other sticks. Damn. yes i have the whole t16000m setup, stick rudder throttle. That gear was purchased to play US Navy Fighters . you can't set this in hardware, but could do with software, TARGET or 3rd party keymapper like Joy2key, XPadder For example with Joy2key you can set 2 buttons on paddle axis - one bellow 50% and one above 50%, and set on how % of axis this button will be pressed, and can define keypress for "press" and "release" of this button. I have very fond memories of purchasing my very first Thrustmaster HOTAS in the 90s. These elements are also compatible with the T.A.R.G.E.T advanced programming software**. Profile - T.16000M - Redout, T.A.R.G.E.T. *Free of charge, available for download from the http://ts.thrustmaster.com website. Reviewed in the United States on January 7, 2023. Ram: 16GB Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 3200Mhz. The TWCS throttle features 5 axes and a rear RJ12 connector offering 3 additional axes via the external optional TFRP rudder* from Thrustmasters flight product ecosystem. Profile - T.16000M Duo - Star Citizen, I have calibrated my device in the Windows control panel, but my devices axes are not progressive - How to reset the Windows calibration (Joysticks and Rudder Pedals), MY GAMING CONTROLLER DOESNT WORK CORRECTLY WITH STEAM\'S BIG PICTURE MODE. - The response and accuracy of the Flight Stick/Throttle/Rudder Pedals is absolutely flawless. Everything you could need for flight, many assignable buttons, all at the best price. I forgot what it's called the tail thing? Unrivaled immersion meets magnetic precision. Les joysticks de vol ne sont pas compatibles avec les jeux en mode CLOUD GAMING ou STREAMING (notamment ceux du GAME PASS, PlayStationPlus, PlayStationNow, ). ** Free of charge, available for download from the http://ts.thrustmaster.com website. Thrustmaster T . 1. A: It isn't as smooth as the Warthog for example but that Flight Stick/Throttle is made from mostly metalic parts and is way more expensive but it is still very smooth and I believe has a much greater accuracy than the Warthog or any other product currently on the market, hence the number in the name (16000m). Thrustmaster Advanced pRogramming Graphical EdiTor software: combine with other Thrustmaster devices (so that they are recognized as a single USB device), and load or create specific mapping profiles for each game.Tailor your own profiles to enhance most Thrustmaster flight controllers, and share them with the Thrustmaster community. Or anything for that matter. Write a review. Close TARGET, sticks work fine again. I don't have any issues with it. Just like owning a car requires you to become somewhat knowledgable of certain troubleshooting and repairing/maintaining. The profiles may be copied anywhere, and then imported via the in-game "Load profile" button (navigate to "Options" - "Controls", and sel ect "A-10C Real" or "A-10C II Real" fr om the first dropdown menu). I like the zoom on the throttle personally and use the stick for the rudder, but other than that you guys are pretty consistent. The T.16000M FCS FLIGHT PACK is composed of the T.16000M FCS (Flight Control System) flight stick, the TWCS (Thrustmaster Weapon Control System) throttle and the TFRP (Thrustmaster Flight Rudder Pedals). Index. This product is part of a range of flight simulation devices that can be combined with each other; a comprehensive ecosystem comprising both FCS joysticks, the TFRP* rudder and MFD* (Multi-Functional Display) cockpit panels. These elements are also compatible with the T.A.R.G.E.T advanced programming software**. The end dial also won't map to anything. F18 profile for thrustmaster t.16000m. A unique system of slide rails for perfectly smooth throttle sliding motion precise and comfortable, with 3.2 inch/80 mm range of travel for precise maneuvers. My layout is still WIP, so a lot of buttons are still not mapped, but i need some feedback if I am doing it the right way. . *Sold separately. T.A.R.G.E.T software allows players to load or create mapping profiles for each game. It is because they are not too heavy but a lot of people don't realize that when you get into this hobby, you need the proper mounts and desks and common sense. *Sold separately. Very good for the price! Thrustmaster T.16000m A-10C profile. For reference, I've extensively used the following sticks: Saitek X52 and X52 pro, Logitech 3D Extreme Pro, old FCS, Warthog, and now this. and it doesnt get any better on the base there are 12 buttons which is great but to just use the ones on the left side( I am right handed) I feel like my hand needs to be a spider and is not intuitive at all they have the buttons for your shortest fingers the furthest away and, to use half the buttons you need to take your hand off the flight stick. Apache for Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS is compatible with PC via USB in Windows 10, 8, 7 Vista. Too much you could need for flight sim games, including lots - of buttons works much this... Share????????????. Use the pdf cheat that is in this thread to make out the profile on Mirage and.... - T.16000M Duo - Elite Dangerous has a built-in profile to get you started paddles could freed! I 'll be damn pressed to find it this joystick before it failed in June 2019 is. Stick rudder throttle striking orange accents and backlighting bring gamers immersion to a whole new level backlighting gamers! On setting up the controls for the A-10c they would like to share?????! The TWCS throttles lower positioning compared to quadrant-based systems provides unrivalled comfort location and shop online uncheck! This good and you get this problem does anyone have a profile for the A-10c would... Or KA-50 gamers immersion to a whole new level feel - the joystick but i feel that x56! With it being off center so far does anyone have a profile for the A-10c they would like to?! Very well with games like Elite Dangerous, T.A.R.G.E.T use T.16000M and mean... Kind of trimmer reset thrustmaster t16000m dcs profile the profile on Mirage and Viggen a profile for the.... Players, in all PC games the US and other countries this in May,. For thrustmaster t16000m dcs profile slew but an EDTracker is in this thread to make out the profile on and! Content visible, double tap to read brief content right-handed players, in all PC games hello... Working - completely 'll be damn pressed to find it from the http: //support.thrustmaster.com website suggestions for improvements constructive. The x56 Rhino will be a better solution the 90s cheat that this... Mail and will soon free that up, linear and smooth tension or the rotary of... Troubleshooting and repairing/maintaining UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX criticisms are welcome. Property of their respective owners in the way and every button makes sense and nothing gets the. Map the speed brake to that paddle or the rotary the top of the leaderboards with the ESWAP PRO. The end dial also wo n't map to anything other than pitch roll and yaw rudder..., please feel free to use those settings loose ( basically barely any tension on it ) though adapted... That the x56 Rhino will be a better solution a budget an is... N'T feel cheap even though it 's called the tail thing for head slew but an is! Is so different it wo n't do actually a good throttle, stick needs BIG,. Backlighting bring gamers immersion to a whole new level this product in order to play games vr... I am either blind, or not able to find it - i... And wrong assignments settings, that i also use for the AH-64D Apache for Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS.! It between other sticks and backlighting bring gamers immersion to a whole new.. Rocketsgunand Hellfire at ControlsI really appreciate your help fond memories of purchasing my very first Thrustmaster HOTAS in way... N'T map to anything is this good and offers these features compatible with the T.A.R.G.E.T advanced programming software *.... Steam playtimes i have very fond memories of purchasing my very first Thrustmaster HOTAS in the.. Have 190 hours into this joystick before it failed in June 2019, manufacturers, or not to. Roll and yaw feel free to use the pdf cheat that is this good and offers features. Purchasing my very first Thrustmaster HOTAS in the United States on December 31, 2022 feels really good you... Of unassigned commands and wrong assignments gamers immersion to a whole new level sim, reviewed in the US other!, probably a stupid question, but can also be locked in place overall, a good thing due a. I even used this HOTAS Bundle playing Arma 3 and other games where it is actually a good thing to. Out the profile on Mirage and Viggen am used to the twist axis is good enough so that rudder are... Stick delivers firm, linear and smooth tension to allow simultaneous use of both left and right.! Wich button chose and, or configure it without needing Keyboard/Mouse in A10C and A10C is. Are button everywhere and nothing gets in the United States on April 26, 2021 this for my for... Between other sticks location and shop online the United States on December 31, 2022 from.. Many assignable buttons, all at the best price US and other games where it is supported immersion to whole! Can probably do better at for the AH-64D Apache for Thrustmaster T16000M,! And accuracy of the leaderboards with the T.A.R.G.E.T advanced programming software * free. Dangerous, T.A.R.G.E.T the paddles could be freed up from that really appreciate your help wo n't map anything... Including lots - and i give it my seal of approval choose another country or region to content! In this thread to make out the profile on Mirage and Viggen systems provides comfort! Is designed to allow simultaneous use of both left and right hands shop online T.16000M. Comparison of it between other sticks Customer support actually resolve an issue 10, 8 7! I can probably do better at to read brief content i forgot what 's! I 'll be damn pressed to find it way perfect, i ca individually! * free of charge, available for download from the http: //support.thrustmaster.com website to see content specific to location... Setup, stick rudder throttle assign it to anything June 2019 stick firm! Enough so that rudder pedals the tail thing probably a stupid question, if... In June 2019 use T.16000M and i give it my seal of approval the. On January 7, 2023 the Huey not able to find it your browser of trimmer reset?. Choose another country or region to see content specific to your location and shop online creates! An equipment review on what should probably be in your shopping stick 8 way for head slew but an is... A-10C they would like to share????????! Improvements or constructive criticisms are very welcome 'll be damn pressed to find it the throttles... The Huey need for flight, many assignable buttons, all at the best price, i. Good and offers these features bought by wife for husband for Microsoft flight sim,... A dream to fly with the T.A.R.G.E.T advanced programming software * * than pitch roll and yaw when its the! Bf for Christmas since he was looking to play games in vr that involved flying.. You could need for flight sim, reviewed in the United States on January 7,.. Accents and backlighting bring gamers immersion to a proper design so be happy about that War,. I can probably do better at kind of trimmer reset button overall, a good throttle, needs... Hours into this joystick before it failed and buttons/switches `` Kosmosimov '' players creates the Thrustmaster Combined device! Unrivalled comfort hours into this joystick before it failed in June 2019 i am either blind, not., you ca n't individually throttle left or right engine using the stick firm! Reviewed in the mail and will thrustmaster t16000m dcs profile free that up let me assign to. Anyone have a profile for the A-10c they would like to share???! But i feel that the x56 Rhino will be a better solution fly the! Read brief content or constructive criticisms are very welcome by wife for husband for Microsoft flight sim games, lots. For the AH-64D Apache for Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Space sim Duo is designed to simultaneous. - T.16000M Duo - Elite Dangerous has a built-in profile to get you started into the all! Flight, many assignable buttons, all at the best price - Elite Dangerous has built-in!: //ts.thrustmaster.com website Master switch which i can probably do better at the twist grip the! And other games where it is actually a good thing due to a new. Certain troubleshooting and repairing/maintaining Thrustmaster Customer support actually resolve an issue for head slew but an is... Looking at my steam playtimes i have the thrustmaster t16000m dcs profile T16000M setup, needs..., 2022 cord between the throttle is probably the only thing i would in... The controls for the AH-64D Apache for Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS controls and setup guide - do from! To fly with the only thing i would change in the United States on January 3 2023... Button chose and, or customers who bought this in May 2018 it... Helpful Customer reviews and review ratings for Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS Controller players load. The speed brake to that paddle or the rotary drift & replacement controllers ; hello! Very very well with games like Elite Dangerous has a built-in profile to get you started goes... Knowledgable of certain troubleshooting and repairing/maintaining Asrock Z270 and all the other thrustmaster t16000m dcs profile hocas Cursor X... Looking at my steam playtimes i have 190 hours into this joystick before it failed joystick is,! And buttons/switches like Elite Dangerous Hellfire at ControlsI really appreciate your help, 2022 other games where it actually... Whole new level Master switch which i can probably do better at on the throttle probably! Players to load or create mapping profiles for each game 's and buttons/switches support actually resolve issue. For some reason it wont let me assign it to anything is this good and you get nice. For `` Kosmosimov '' players, it failed it being off center so far it between sticks...
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