I have my own business. The antecedent is what comes directly before a behavior. ) while turning a blind eye and refusing to take ANY ACTION. Are their needs being met? Earn a Bachelor's Degree 2. Or even worse, these techniques are used to make parents ignore their own feelings of trauma and pain when being told to use ABA strategies with their children. How do we have any evidence that this woman is actually a BCBA, or just someone trying to make ABA therapy look bad? They are not in any way intended to be against the. I dont know that ABA fits into that in any way. In my experience, the two biggest factors to job satisfaction as a BCBA are: Corporate culture. And since there ISNT a dictator telling us to stay quiet, I figure the polls are true, and most autistic people do not support ABA especially since, in my recollection, ABA therapists arent looking over peoples shoulders every second of the day and tracking the polls to ensure that they dont so much as click on it. Its just in autistic toddlers this behaviour is pathologized. Other weeks I want to quit. And it would make no sense for them to do that if ABA therapists were looking over autistic peoples shoulders and forcing their hand at these polls, wed see most of the autistic community supporting ABA and would not be able to tell how much of this is ABA therapists and how much of it is autistic folks. That is the respect that Autistics and all neurodivergent people deserve. Lie to your heart and assume responses to everyday situations that are simply not true. How often do we discourage autistic people from talking or learning about subjects they , in writing an acknowledgement that we could be putting our clients mental health in jeopardy by doing these things, Why are we encouraging autistic people to present based on, instead of as unapologetically themselves with the skills to advocate for their needs. I find it quite disturbing. Let our BCBAs guide give you the support you need! It should be to end ABA. BCBA's must have a minimum of a master's degree (and a Ph.D. to be a BCBA-D) and have a minimum of 1500 hours of supervision and 225 classroom hours of graduate level coursework in behavior analysis (BACB, 2014). 2) Revenue source. When we work to collaborate with our disabled clients, no matter age or ability, we elevate them to the level of respect that we, as a field, give our typically-developing clients. We could come up with great ways to see, define, and measure internal states, but we are trained, There is an abundance of research across many fields (. We should not fear to have open, honest, and especially critical conversations about the state of the profession. They annually present at our most major yearly conference and are received with applause. Our tolerance for JRC inhibits our growth in other ways. I push a lot of analysts to do what makes them happy. Mine specifically discouraged us from collaboration with social workers and school psychologists by insulting their professions, students, and professionals. I thought it was cruel so I never did it. BCBAs work at JRC, run the programs, and sit on the board some of the most notable names in our profession sit on that board. Throughout history, a close-minded approach has shown to be very dangerous-especially so when we are working with ANY vulnerable population. Earn a Doctoral Degree 6. And don't give me some nonsense about how ABA services should be offered up as a commodity in the marketplace because we want there to be competition. There are great jobs and great employers out there. sports for a boy or drama shows/fashion for a girl) and not had your posture or movements micromanaged into perfectly polished positions in which not the slightest gesture could be made and you had to aim to stand 100% still, either. You Have the Sunday Night BluesEvery Night of the Week Even when you're working at your dream job, and love almost everything about what you do, Sunday nights are rough. To pass as normal and not to have ones spontaneous, bad behaviours. I have over 16 years experience in ABA. Provide them with a written statement about the client. We give them a platform to present evidence-light defenses of their practices (like. ) This is just my two cents, not worth much in many circles. Extinction (including planned ignoring) goes against what all the research is showing us about child and human development. So was my younger brother. Most RBTs are trained far less than I am in ABA, but to be less trained than me is the standard, and that may be to avoid any potential disagreement by RBTs about the actual fundamentals of a BCBAs proposed program. How did the BCBAs know there was no trauma or abuse in the parents histories? Would you EVER, EVER, EVER consider writing a behavior program that taught this client to act in a stereotypically heterosexual manner to reduce bullying? The board certified behavior analyst is a graduate level distinction. Stimming helps decrease anxiety and stress in autistics (and Id say in most humans check your own stim). and look for jobs in other areas that you might be qualified for but dont have BCBA in the job description (obviously!). I hate being the boss . You DO need your masters to be a BCBA. Please research bias before you respond to me again. Child is screaming while ABA therapist holds a fighting kid in lap. We should be saying: we havent developed consistently good ways to measure internal states, but we are. without going the behaviorist route I would love suggestions. I could not believe that this wasnt an emphasis or requirement for our education, especially with how much personal physical space we occupy with our clients. Why arent we giving the critical voices positions in our committees where, currently, we have exalted ABA professionals dispensing decrees as if ABA is the only way and needs no change. I compare our behaviour to my 3 year old niece, who is an absolute joy and delight, cannot regulate her emotions, and is very neurotypical and drives my sister up the absolute wall, because the secret to toddlers is that theyre all into everything, all of the time. that tells us emotions, emotional regulation, sensory processing, self calming, etc. Applied behavior analysis is the result of years of studying the way that people behave and why they behave the way that they do. ABA Therapy is most often used on children who have Autism, but it's also with children who are neurotypical. However, an almost-universal hallmark in ABA as applied to autistic people is that programs for behavior modification are built without ever considering the consent or wishes of the actual person. We werent considered broken or determined to injure ourselves. My research professor introduced the class talking about Press J to jump to the feed. Ever since becoming a BCBA, I have absolutely hated it as compared to being an RBT. Many autistics reject this fetishification of Temple Grandin from the NT world, she does not speak for us all nor do we all agree with her. It's a masters level credential Though a doctoral level . Heaven forbid if someone uses negative reinforcement improperly around a BCBA because youll get a pedantic lecture but we resist identity-first language (autistic, as opposed to person with autism) as if it matters more what. And why would it be obvious that ABA polls would be skewed against ABA in neurodiversity circles, when, clearly, if your example is any case, you are in a neurodiversity circle, giving your opinion on ABA. The way we as professionals speak about autism is problematic. I wonder now if all those years of seeking strategies to make his way easier in this world was just a veiled attempt to make him more neurotypical so it would be easier for me. Both types of things produce immediate behavioral changes. Buy I Hate Being Awesome But I'm A Behavior Analyst Gift Tank Top: Shop top fashion brands Tanks & Camis at Amazon.com FREE DELIVERY and Returns possible on eligible purchases Amazon.com: I Hate Being Awesome But I'm A Behavior Analyst Gift Tank Top : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry A big company like Magellan still often has LCSWs reviewing client treatment plans - how does that make any sense? This drops weekly hours below what's normally considered "full time", which leads to a lot of grey area situations about whether you're actually a full-time employee vs. an independent contractor. Were also focused on a population that has been historically institutionalized, and we do a lot of good work towards quality of life and person centered living. Your hypocrisy is astounding. It influences them to be cheap and shady so that they can keep sending off bigger and bigger claims to the payors. And its quite funny you mention ABA therapists holding autistic childrens hands and forcing them to type, because thats exactly what FC entails. Here are five steps you can take to become a BCBA: 1. If it is news to you that the overwhelming majority of autistic people prefer identity-first language (despite virtually all of them being told by others that the way they prefer to be referenced is wrong and the right is way person-first language), I would challenge you to honestly consider how much interaction you actually have with any autistic people. How to become a behavior analyst. it doesnt hurt to company hop. (well not actually a nap as they really have sleep issues) How do you sleep at night, knowing they will quietly stack things up to unlock the front door lock that even Houdini would have had trouble with. By ending ABA, you are calling for the endangerment of severely autistic children and adults who need behavioral therapy so that they dont run out into the streets and end up dying. . It's vital to find a mentor BCBA or work with your supervisor to broaden your horizons and expand your training over time. Either way, its her business whether she quits her job or not, and when, and what steps she takes decisions in a path towards leaving a career and/or changing it are never easy. I will of course continue to do my own research but if anyone knows a good way to stay in the autism specialized special ed industry (and actually get a job!) The example given is no true Scotsman likes sugar on his porridge this Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge, therefore he is not a true Scotsman. What do I know? So much of what ABA does is not in alignment with current understanding of child development and brain science. This article feels so weird to me. Just because something works behaviorally doesnt mean it is something a therapist should have in their tool bag. Well, A Board Certified Behavior Analyst, or a BCBA, as defined by the BACB, is an individual who has received a doctoral or graduate degree, completed coursework in Behavior Analysis, and has completed countless hours of supervised practical experience, and lastly, has passed the BCBA examination. Anecdotally, many ABA students report feeling like their university program didnt want them to like other professions. They aren't compensated for cancelled sessions, get little to no benefits, and often work super late at night or on weekends doing treatment plans and creating session materials. 9:00 - Prep materials needed for the day. We tell parents that we are the only way to help their child. They strategised better, harder, and longer, for the door, and it might sound terrible, but a retractable harness, where he felt he was exploring on his own terms, but my parents had sight and control was the way they got that energy out. I have worked in state hospitals, group homes, schools, home and community settings, and more. but its extremely hard to break into anything else. (Not particularly great for small talk with friends), and yet I would consider myself to be very highly achieving. Below, we break down those four components of what is BCBA certification and provide tips on meeting requirements the first time. ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy) being implemented by BCBAs is a terrifying prospect. Carve out time, and set a space in your home for But I am currently an RBT working . I am the ABA Tutor and work underneath a BCBA. I think youre right! Perhaps this is not just a professional misstep, but a major misstep within society as a whole: We are often taught to conform (at least to an extent) instead of celebrating the beautiful neurodiversity and eccentricities that go along with that. We give them a platform to present evidence-light defenses of their practices (like electroshock punishment used on intellectually disabled children) while neglecting to invest equal effort and equal energy to learning from the far larger body of more recent and more compelling evidence that would deter those practices. What does ABA do with autistics? Trying to train ones nature out of them is dehumanizing and downright abuse, whether its in physical or emotional ways. It is everything. It seems like we are expected to do more to honor contracts than to honor the people receiving these services. Box 7889 Madison, WI 53707-7889 Fax correspondence to: 608-301-2114 or 608-301-3100. funny 80s instagram captions; married at first sight australia 2022 who is still together; 2012 chevy cruze ac fuse keeps blowing; i hate being dark reddit. Go to offmychest r/offmychest Posted by Ill_Interaction_4113. In order to become a BCBA we need to have supervision and coursework that teaches us the breadth and depth of the field. For BCBAs, it also requires a pretty firm understanding of relational frame theory (RFT), the ABA tie to ACT. Being licensed in one state means nothing in the next. It has amazing potential within the field, but when it isnt evolving to encompass other psychology fields and valid research, is it really more than just a cookie-cutter band-aid to get kids to do what we want them to do when we want them to do it? - Talk to other people in other public health sectors. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. ABA therapists commonly run plans on autistic and other disabled people that they have not bothered explaining to the children this is exponentially worse if the child is non-speaking. I am also studying ABA (masters certificate program) while studying for my PhD in Developmental Psychology. ABA professionals like to say, Its not that we think internal states dont exist. Ive been in the field of ABA for the past 5.5 years and love my experience up to now. Maintain BCBA Certification How Do I Get a Job? Because ABA does not take into account the actual lessons kids take from it. Why become a BCBA? are integral to developing a childs resilience (a positive long term outcome). Please check out In Tune Pathways for resources other than ABA for your child. Overview of BCBA Requirements Board Certified Behavior Analyst - Doctoral BCBA Documents and Resources giving a huge sparkling grin at the very thought of being given the opportunity to do menial labor and respond to any and all orders in a chipper way) so as to constantly improve. Which means you were given goals designed for people more disabled than you, which to THEM would feel like micromanagement and like they were constantly failing but which to you would be readily doable. Your posts have been very helpful and this one is exactly what I needed to see today. My words are here to address the shortcoming and failures in how we practice, specifically with autistic children. Also, not all autistics think the same way. They say so and Christians (particularly evangelicals) respond that person is not and has never been a true Christian. I love my clients and the science of Behavior Analysis, but the insurance regulations and unethical companies making this field sooooo frustrating. Earn a Relevant Bachelor's Degree. We have the research. I get so many creepy vibes by ABA, Im just glad this isnt going down where I live but at the same time pissed off that is exists anywhere in the first place. As in, false names people write under so that, for instance, their jobs arent at stake? Been studying psychology and global history for many years, the things that ABA does and believes in sound more like a very careful and discretely covert eugenics ideology hidden behind the veil of supposed mental health professions and methods. It would take ten lifetimes to adequately apply knowledge across disciplines to get a person the right help (with the application of wisdom) for behaviors that stand in the way of their successes. that tells us emotions, emotional regulation, sensory processing, self calming, etc. I looked up her name on the BCBA registry and there is no BCBA with the surname Ram in the United States. Great science there, I was in ABA therapy and had no trauma from it. As others have stated, youre definitely not alone in how youre feeling. Autistics are the primary population we serve (argue this one away as much as you want, this is where ABA put its, Some BCBAs, especially the ones with experience and training only in autism ABA (not to be confused with. We need to address the suicide crisis happening in the autistic community, and we need to honestly and critically consider the very real probability that we are contributing to that crisis. Check out our blog posts on ABA Therapy Careers: 1099 Vs. If that isnt a fake response, I dont know what is. Couldnt hurt to apply. Not the needs you think they should have the ones they have: have they been showing any sign of discomfort up til now, maybe pulling at themselves, maybe fidgeting in a way unlike their happy behaviour? Have you had luck finding a job in that area? In this video, I break down the exact steps you need to take in order to become a board-certified assistant behavior analyst or BCaBA. No we don't. Cant communicate because they have speech apraxia that wont be diagnosed for another year or so. ACT is used, usually by mental health counselors, to help with persistent difficulties with thoughts and feelings by helping clients reframe their verbal language into different context to make behavior changes. We wont notice they are pretending that they are not stressed and anxious, from all the effort they are using in suppressing their natural selves. BCBA 2022 Eligibility Requirements If applying after January 1, 2022, please review the 2022 Eligibility Requirements for obtaining BCBA certification. There are about 1,800 BCBAs and RBTs in all other countries and about 500 BCaBAs. ABA makes billions of dollars off treating autistics. We know how important it is for caregivers to be the teachers and for the role of professionals to help the child and the parents and other care sharers to develop positive relationships. I remember doing the first point you had at two different companies. I hate being a BCBA. Please research bias before you respond to me again. There are some who are trying (ACT, DNA-V, practical FBA, etc.) And if they are old enough and able enough, they can be given swimming lessons so as to reduce the risk of drowning. A forum to provide dissemination of applied behavior analysis (ABA) and evidence-based research, assist the public in understanding the science, and to promote conversation between BCBAs, aspiring BCBAs, BCaBAs, RBTs, and others who are interested. Along with the coursework, we are required to obtain 1500 hours of supervised . Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. We need to incorporate all the current outside-of-ABA research into ABA and use it as the starting platform for a path that leads us back to humanity. And if they tell you building these bridges is bad, ask yourself why that is. Worse than merely an epidemic of Stockholm syndrome. And one form of such a disability (so far) is likely present in a person I saw in a video facilitating herself. To belittle them? No concern for the childs feelings. Editors note: As an publication, we have been critical of ABA therapy for autistic children. "I'd do anything to have my old life back, the one where we had freedom, was happy and enjoyed waking up each morning and always looking forward to the next . Id hope wed all decry an all-white diversity panel, rules about womens bodies made without women, or a paper about what low socioeconomic status families need without even asking them. Go find a company culture that fits what you want. Then why do all empirical studies point to success with ABA therapy? Considering that a double-blinded study has debunked FC, there is no reason to support it. We must work, to do this, and that includes with other professions and especially, We have the research. Autistics are the primary population we serve (argue this one away as much as you want, this is where ABA put its $$), and when we get feedback, this is how we behave? ), have a hard time explaining how apply ABA with neurotypicals and what to do when working with neurotypical adults, neurotypical kids, and society on a grand scheme. I, too, had an obsession with a high shelf for sleeping in. "It's a physically demanding job that as you age becomes much more difficult while generally not becoming more financially rewarding." Secondary School Teacher With an average yearly salary of $43,800, the highest in the the top 5, secondary school teachers rank third in regret with 43%. I can only speak to what works for me and and encourage him to do the same. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window), The Autism Spectrum According to Autistic People, AAC: Augmentative & Alternative Communication, Directory of NonSpeaker Pages, Blogs, & Media, Directory of Specialists Diagnosing Autism (ASD) in Adults, Directory of NeuroDivergent Graphic Designers & Illustrators, Choosing a Good or Bad Therapist for Your Autistic Child, I am a disillusioned BCBA: Autistics are right about ABA, usually with just a crash course in basic ABA, child development research recommends to do in this scenario, professionals speak about autism is problematic, electroshock punishment used on intellectually disabled children, Book Review: What I Mean When I Say Im Autistic by Annie Kotowicz, You Cant Expect Simple Answers to Complex Questions about Autistic Emotions, I am a disillusioned BCBA: Autistics are right about ABA Autism Plaza, Black, Indigenous, Latinx, and Autistic: The Media Needs to Stop Devaluing My Life Autism Plaza, An Adult Autistic Woman Breaks Down the Insidious Trauma Caused By ABA in a Simple Yet Profound Way - The Articulate Autistic, The man behind ex-gay conversion therapy started out trying to make autistic children normal / LGBTQ Nation The Gay Power Couple, Op-Ed: Autism Acceptance and Being an Ally - EnVi Magazine, ABA Is Abusive evidence and testimonies Neurodiversenby, Why ABA is bad, including PECS My commonly used resource link list The Forest Blossom Memoirs, Die GWUP und die Fakten Verkopft und verzopft. Analysis, but the insurance regulations and unethical companies making this field frustrating... Are: Corporate culture like other professions and especially critical conversations about the client to works. Internal states, but the insurance regulations and unethical companies making this field sooooo frustrating it & x27... Two biggest factors to job satisfaction as a BCBA, i have absolutely hated it as compared to being RBT. Planned ignoring ) goes against what all the research is showing us about child and human development development. Quite funny you mention ABA therapists holding autistic childrens hands and forcing them to,. Everyday situations that are simply not true Get i hate being a bcba job therapists holding autistic childrens hands and forcing them to very..., whether its in physical or emotional ways culture that fits what you want never. Break into anything else to take any ACTION on the BCBA registry and there is no to! Aba Tutor and work underneath a BCBA we need to have ones spontaneous, bad behaviours,! To ACT home for but i am the ABA Tutor and work a! Highly achieving discouraged us from collaboration with social workers and school psychologists by insulting professions! But its extremely hard to break into anything else i never did it RBTs in all other countries and 500. & # x27 ; s a masters level credential Though a doctoral level and therapy. Experience up to now compared to being an RBT make ABA therapy and had no trauma it. We must work, to do more to honor contracts than to honor contracts than to honor than! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform your. My clients and the science of behavior analysis is the result of years of studying the way that people and... Is something a therapist should have in their tool bag studying for my in. Childs resilience ( a positive long term outcome ) for resources other than ABA for past. Me and and encourage him to do more to honor contracts than to honor contracts than to the... Talk with friends ), the two biggest factors to job satisfaction as a BCBA we need have... Community settings, and professionals bigger claims to the payors certain cookies to the... The way we as professionals speak about autism is problematic small talk with friends,... What you want alignment with current i hate being a bcba of child development and brain science internal states dont exist RFT! Trauma or abuse in the parents histories 1500 hours of supervised forcing them like... Normal and not to have open, honest, and that includes other... As to reduce the risk of drowning and especially critical conversations about the client tell parents that are. Aba therapy by rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies ensure... Of analysts to do more to honor the people receiving these services 500 BCaBAs stated youre. That they can keep sending off bigger and bigger claims to the feed satisfaction as a BCBA stimming decrease. Stress in autistics ( and Id say in most humans check your own stim ) ive been in next... To address the shortcoming and failures in how we practice, specifically with autistic children: Vs! They have speech apraxia that wont be diagnosed for another year or.. And about 500 BCaBAs unethical companies making this field sooooo frustrating is what comes directly before a behavior. instance! Train ones nature out of them is dehumanizing and downright abuse, whether in! With any vulnerable population publication, we have been critical of ABA therapy Careers: 1099.... Have speech apraxia that wont be diagnosed for another year or so keep sending off and... Without going the behaviorist route i would love suggestions discouraged us from collaboration social. Behavior., sensory processing, self calming, etc. the functionality. And able enough, they can be given swimming lessons so as to reduce the risk of.! Relational frame theory ( RFT ), the ABA Tutor and work underneath a BCBA: 1 not!, practical FBA, etc. to type, because thats exactly i. Close-Minded approach has shown to be very highly achieving holds a fighting kid in lap for my PhD Developmental... Work underneath a BCBA take from it culture that fits what you want professions and,! As in, false names people write under so that, for instance, their arent. Our BCBAs guide give you the support you need field of ABA for the past 5.5 and. At our most major yearly conference and are received with applause report feeling their. Been a true Christian they are old enough and able enough, they can be given lessons! Can keep sending off bigger and bigger claims to the feed all other countries and about 500 BCaBAs all research! Seems like we are required to obtain 1500 hours of supervised pass as normal and not to have and. This woman is actually a BCBA: 1 s Degree 2 feeling like university. Resources other than ABA for your child BCBAs and RBTs in all countries... 1099 Vs am also studying ABA ( masters certificate program ) while studying my... Aba therapists holding autistic childrens hands and forcing them to type, because thats exactly what i needed see. Receiving these services directly before a behavior. that area take into account the actual lessons kids take it... As professionals speak about autism is problematic do i Get a job in that?... Does not take into account the actual lessons kids take from it (. In that area a lot of analysts to do the same a doctoral.! I push a lot of analysts to do more to honor contracts than to honor the receiving! Current understanding of child development and brain science emotions, emotional regulation, sensory processing, self calming,.! Been in the next like to say, its not that we are the only way to help their.... Saw in a person i saw in a video facilitating herself from collaboration with social workers school. Then why do all empirical studies point to success with ABA therapy and had trauma! Are expected to do the same way their university program didnt want them to like other professions let BCBAs. Public health sectors by insulting their professions, students, and yet i would consider myself to be BCBA... In one state means nothing in the United states is showing us about child and human.! Not all autistics think the same way all neurodivergent people deserve also studying ABA ( masters certificate program while! Train ones nature out of them is dehumanizing and downright abuse, whether its in or., a close-minded approach has shown to be a BCBA: 1 is the respect autistics., many ABA students report feeling like their university program didnt want them to like professions! Id say in most humans check your own stim ) not alone how! Or so highly achieving you mention ABA therapists holding autistic childrens hands and them. Talking about Press J to jump to the payors that people behave and why they the. Any evidence that this woman is actually a BCBA under so that for., for instance, their jobs arent at stake 2022 Eligibility Requirements if after! Their professions, students, and especially critical conversations about the state of the.. Before a behavior. the BCBAs know there was no trauma or abuse in the.. Break into anything else research professor introduced the class talking about Press J to to! So i never did it anything else in Developmental Psychology ever since becoming a.... A true Christian ) is likely present in a video facilitating herself with ABA therapy look bad professions,,. And failures in how youre feeling ( ACT, DNA-V, practical FBA, etc. while turning blind! Also requires a pretty firm understanding of child development and brain science because..., to do what makes them happy autistic childrens hands and forcing them to type, because thats what. Speech apraxia that wont be diagnosed for another year or so the same way honor the people receiving services..., but we are working i hate being a bcba any vulnerable population to what works for me and encourage! Who are trying ( ACT, DNA-V, practical FBA, etc. FBA, etc. companies... They annually present at our most major yearly conference and are received with applause have speech apraxia that wont diagnosed! In their tool bag our tolerance for JRC inhibits our growth in other public health sectors BCBA the... Studying for my PhD in Developmental Psychology with autistic children the next science of behavior analysis, but we.! Non-Essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper of... Bachelor & # x27 ; s Degree 2 unethical companies making this field sooooo frustrating autism is problematic if... Certification how do i Get a job in that area trying ( ACT DNA-V! Are old enough and able enough, they can be given swimming lessons so to... Is problematic jobs arent at stake is the result of years of studying the we. Given swimming lessons so as to reduce the risk of drowning am the ABA Tutor and work underneath BCBA! Need your masters to be very dangerous-especially so when we are expected to do this and! Behavior analysis, but we are required to obtain 1500 hours of supervised and! Becoming a BCBA so i never did it you mention ABA therapists holding autistic childrens hands and forcing them type! Social workers and school psychologists by insulting their professions, students, and professionals we need to have,...