The rank of a cadet is for protocol issues alone such as where to stand in a receiving line or where to sit at a formal dinner. First off the reg says regularly assigned personnel, which the Cadets are not. So you are always busy and have something to do. I mean, that certainly seemed to be the case at Airborne School back in the day. Command Sergeant Major Michel R. Fraser was born in Wilmington, North Carolina and raised in Conway, South Carolina. This would be wiser than placing a WP Year 1 cadet in charge of it. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel Administration Specialist which later became 42A Human Resources Specialist. Define "Duty", you know as opposed to "Education/Training". In this case he/she is regularly assigned, potentially in an E3, E4, E5, or what have you spot. Sergeant First Class Ehrin Anthony joined the West Point Band in August of 2014. The Army has launched an investigation after the unmasking of a semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of U.S. Military Academy, West Point, allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump, an Army official confirmed to the Daily Caller. Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320th Field Artillery Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, serving as the Artillery Command Sergeant Major, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Georgia, and serving as the Corps G-3 Fires Sergeant Major XVIII Airborne Corps Headquarters at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. When an NCO saluted me, I didn't just wave my hand at my cover to dismiss the salute, but "locked up" a little myself, acknowledged him with eye contact, and responded to any greeting. She graduated from Conway High School in 1989. If you run a command climate where you relegate your NCOs to small picture things, you will be a small picture unit and your good NCOs will find their way out of your unit and you will be left with small picture, tunnel vision type folks such as those that you describe. And cadets initiate salutes to any commissioned officer. Allow them to lead you too! Sometimes cadets are relegated to less-meaningful duties, or endure some modicum of hazing as part of the experience. Yet I would not want a Year 1 WP cadet in charge of a company. While Deployed with the Corps in support of Operation Inherent Resolve, he also assumed duties as the Combined Joint Task Force (OIR) J-3 Sergeant Major. We're also the one demographic that gives the socialist/communists nightmares because they know they can't take us head on in any manner so they go through the younger people to reach their aims. Yet, still burdened with the unsocial characteristic of the enlisted class. It would be earned when I became the kind of Officer that he would be honored to serve as right hand to. Something went wrong while submitting the form. I wore the Cadet rank insignia of 2LT. Cadet Physical Program requirements still remain a priority April 1, 2020. The reason "cadets" are even mention in a gentlemans role is due to long ago medieval social customs. And if you think islam is a warm and fuzzy religion, you're way off! Paras 2-9 and 2-10, AR 600-20 further reinforce Scott Faiths important points here. GO ARMY! They're inchoate officers. Forces Korea, the Department of Defense, or any agency of the U.S. government. I was wondering if I would have to make mention of the fact that until they are COMMISSIONED Officers, they will remain nothing more than a glorified E-5 NCO pay scale while in USMA. Oh please. For some reason a lot of angry major S3 types fall into this category. Sorry, I wrote that on the go from a mobile device, and can't edit it. The one group that actually gave us respect and tried to help and mentor us were the senior NCOs. Somehow, the memo of shifting demographics of new Soldiers within the Infantry never reached West Point so there's a huge disconnect in reality. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. His awards and decorations include the Legion of Merit (1OLC) Bronze Star Medal, the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Meritorious Service Medal (3 OLC), Army Commendation Medal (4 OLC), Army Achievement Medal (2 OLC), Meritorious Unit Commendation, Good Conduct Medal (8th Award), National Defense Service Medal (2nd Award), Iraqi Campaign Medal, Afghan Campaign Medal with Campaign Star, Inherent Resolve Campaign Medal, Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Noncommissioned Officers Professional Development Ribbon with numeral 5, Army Service Ribbon, Overseas Service Ribbon, Parachutist Badge, Air Assault Badge, and Drill Sergeant Badge. Interestingly, when a graduating cadet received his commission, (there were no females in the cadet corps in those days), his commission was backdated 15 months to the date he entered the cadet program, giving him a lead on promotion to first lieutenant. While in Iraq in 2003-04 we got a batch of 12 west pointer kids and more than half were momma's boys and short of a huge shift in their personality and ideals, they're too far gone in the head to be respectable leaders. They aren't " in the pipeline" yet regarding training , experience or anything else yet. Of course, there is another reason to treat West Point and ROTC cadets with respect: they are not going to be cadets forever. *This post originally appeard The Havok Journal * U.S. Army photo by: Mike Strasser/ USMA Public Affairs The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. I request you review 600-20again. Has the. When I contracted under the SMP I was administratively promoted to the rank and pay grade of E-5 ( I had served two years previously in the Army Reserve as a junior enlisted 11B). On Thursday, January 21, it was reported that the US Army launched an investigation after the unmasking of a supposedly semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of West Point Military Academy allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump. Yes I have seen a misguided ROTC cadet DEMAND a salute from an E-9 once. Thanks for subscribing! A little background: I received my commission as a 2LT in May 1987 after spending two years in the SMP where I was enrolled as a senior ROTC Cadet (MSIII and MSIV) while serving simultaneously in a National Guard Unit. Warrant Officers are formally addressed as "Mister." A Gunny at 29Palms RTAMS and a Chief at NASA/AMES CA are among my most treasured mentors. We promise not to send you more than one email a week! Cadets are still learning and everyone in the unit should help mentor them and show the value of NCOs. No, I always salute them and treat them as officers, and I make sure everyone else does too, he replied in total sincerity. Cadets should know that they must earn respect. Per the order, they are not entitled to a salute. Its cadets like you that become true leaders, because you have put your ego in check and will EARN the respect of your troops! Get off your high horse. That just goes to show that the regular cadets get crapped on and they can't change it. Does the cadet have offiCial orders? Maj. Joel Crawford, USAG West Point Command Sergeant Major by West Point Garrison and Community 2012 - 2014: Col. Dane D. Rideout, USAG West Point Commander by West Point Garrison and Community 1 2012 - 2014 . Why hasn't a single one of you been taught that humility, respect and honor flows both ways but in different fashions? From the enlisted perspective, while drilling with my Guard unit, there was confusion as to where exactly Cadets fit in to the scheme of things. Only through a wriiten agreement from the pms tonthe guard commander are allowed to serve as acting LT's. West Point welcomed Command Sargent Major Michael J. Coffey as the 21st U.S. Military Academy senior enlisted leader during an assumption of responsibility ceremony Monday, August 17, 2020. Outside of authorized developmental training events such as CTLT, no NCO is going to allow a cadet to swoop in and take charge of his platoon, squad, or section. Technically. I pray that you are only a LT yourself. We were enlisted in the Air Force for a two year enlistment. Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320, United States Military Academy Preparatory School, Simon Center for the Professional Military Ethic. Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. The key to success in your career is understanding the strengths and weaknesses of your key players AKA your subordinate leaders and junior Soldiers. One might argue that a cadet who is SMP, simultaneous membership program, would be regularly assigned. Are we really saying an NCO could not do that? I hope this sheds some light on things. I bet they could not even remember my name. Just try it. Imagine that, good ol Top didnt read the entire regulation, only the part that suited his narrativeshocked. In other words, each the SNCO and the cadet would be functioning appropriately. Before assuming responsibility, Coffey was the command sergeant major for the 3rd Infantry Division at Fort Stewart, Georgia. United States Forces Iraq (USF-I), J-7, n Chief, Engineering Plans and Services Yuma, AZ In respect of ROTC, the R stipulates that only a contracted cadet in ROTC fits the definition I presented. And taken that way. I have heard the saying "Stop being an arrogant officer?" His approach to us was simple and he asked lots of questions about how to best kill tanks and he found that each man has their own method of how they like to do things and tactics they like or dislike and for what reasons. The cadet does not outrank a senior NCO E7 or above. Word of advice, if you want to write an op-Ed then you should submit it for publication. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. After completion of basic training, he attended Advanced Individual Training at Fort Eustis, VA, where he completed the UH-60 Helicopter Repairman course. Oops! I wondered how he, as a senior NCO in a highly specialized unit, felt about having cadets around. I had a CO at one point who absolutely had a genuine dislike for NCOs and believed them to be useless. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. IQ averages are around 120 for most Grunts and for those that don't track demographics, that's a huge jump from national averages. It's often hard to find but its often the real truth on a subject especially if it's being spoon fed to you in briefs and media. Hell, we even had SGMs who wouldnt butter bars and 1LTs, unless you earned it by being high speed and they knew it. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but before NCOs. They dont commission until CW2 but I guess they dont really count as Officers either. Scott Faithis a veteran of a half-dozen combat deployments and has served in several different Special Operations units over the course of his Army career. . DESCRIPTION Twin sisters Cathy and Charlie Kahl enlisted in the Women's Army Corps together, and managed to be stationed together throughout much of their career until they both retired as Command Sergeants Major. I was an enlisted man and my rank at the time of my discharge in the late Summer of 1989 was Sergeant E5. Elite only in their mind. A Leaders Guide to Conducting Research Staff Rides, Its a Bird, Its a Plane, Its. Specifically, it allows them to try their hands at officership, and to get a feel for the kinds of officer/NCO relationships that are essential to the success of our Army. The first three months were preflight training at Lackland AFB where we were taught basic military skills such as customs and courtesies, UCMJ, drill, Air Force history, parachute training, confidence course, and firearms training. Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. She created a public event called "Play Day," which received press from Time Out New York, Gothamist, and various other New York City media outlets. That same reg AR 600-20, Command Policy specifically states they will be addressed as "Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet" not Sir or Mam. Sergeant Major Schlegel earned his Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma (Process Improvement) in 2016, and is actively involved in building the process improvement community at West Point. Command Sergeant Major Fraser awards and decorations include: Meritorious Service Medal (1 SOLC, 1OLC), Army Commendation Medal (2 OLC), Army Achievement Medal (1 SOLC, 4 OLC), Presidential Unit Citation, Joint Meritorious Unit, Army Superior Unit, Army Good Conduct Medal (Numeral 6) Defense Service Medal, Kosovo Campaign Ribbon, Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Korean Defense Service Medal, Noncommissioned Officers Professional Development Ribbon (Numeral 5), Armed Forces Service Medal, Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal, Army Service Ribbon, Overseas Service Ribbons (Numeral 3), NATO Medal, Drill Sergeant Identification Badge, Drivers Badge, German Schuetzenschnur Marksmanship Award (Silver), a recipient of the Honorable Order of Saint Barbara, the Noble Patron of Honor, the Martyrdom of Saint Maurice, the COL Robert L. Manning Achievement Medal, and the Order of Horatio Gates Bronze Medal. IMCOM Directorate - Training, n Deputy/Director Fort Bragg, NC Private Industry, n Chief Readiness Flight Eielson AFB, AK What is the TO&E and where is the cadet slotted? Providing innovative solutions and discoveries through international collaborations with leading academic departments, research centers, and industry. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. . Both preflight and flight school were run under the traditional cadet model of upperclass and lowerclass where upperclassmen were responsible for much of the military training and discipline of the lowerclassmen. I am a cadet and am military police and drill with them as well. You missed it my good first sergeant so I dutifully call your attention to it. As corny as this will sound, the feelings related in the film An Officer and a Gentleman at the end were pretty accurate. In those days once a month you went before the pay officer and received your pay in cash. Seriously get over yourselves West Point you produce officers like any other university and they are no better or worse than anyone else. I highly doubt any West Point graduate will magically "see the light" after reading my imput on this discussion. Incorrect. She earned a Bachelor of Fine Arts in graphic design from the School of Visual Arts in New York City. 2014 - 2016: Command Sgt. And you'll have to deal with the reality that there are better men out there and you may be in over your head but don't blame others for your shortcomings. Subscribe to our email newsletter to receive exclusive news, updates, and concert schedules for the band. WEST POINT, N.Y. - The chain of command for the U.S. That sounds like a fun and challenging job. So I suppose we dont salute appointed Officers either? I was further saluted by all enlisted personnel I encountered on base. When I was an O-3, I regularly saluted SGM's first depending on who saw whom first and the nature of the encounter. As that was a long time ago, my memories of the experience were that it was the best and the worst of both worlds. The only regularly assigned cadets are in the national guard or reserves as a SMP Cadet. West Point grads are elite and you know it, Ask any enlisted person and they will tell you that westpointers are arrogant and on need of a lot of training. However, I don't see the wisdom of placing a SNCO in command of a company ahead of a cadet. U.S. ARMY INSTALLATION MANAGEMENT COMMAND, "We Are the Army's Home - So as indicated by mil/regs a 17 year old snot nosed cadet is indeed an enlisted social/moral/intellectual/ and just plain all around great american hero. Most recently, CSM Craven was the Command Sergeant Major for the 5th Security Force Assistance Brigade (SFAB) at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington. $9.99 + $6.85 shipping . Regarding saluting courtesy in the cadet corps. If you've ever been in a doctor's appointment and a medical student was assigned to your doctor, that's about how cadets in CTLT and SMP function. -If you are a cadet and you don't see the value of picking the brain of an NCO (CPL to SGM), then you will most likely be doing your time and moving on. In my experience we rarely see a decent new officer come out of West Point and it's really sad. It made it very difficult to operate as an NCO under his command. So let me get this straight a probably well connect cadet who memorize info given to them as well as staying nice and tidy, as yet to graduate or earn a degree yet some how thinks that they are officers. I am acting PL of my platoon because we dont have a 2LT. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of Technically. Upon completion of Basic and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his military career as a Field Artillery Surveyor. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. Medical students do not do anything on their own authority, and it would be illegal as they are unlicensed. Normal members of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy (just like rank). Mr. Mitchell is a licensed Professional Engineer and a Level III Certified Acquisitions Professional. I see that USMA had a proud communist recently graduate, he might as well spit in my face and all other better warriors than myself before me. It is not just West Point cadets who outrank NCO's. Staff Sergeant Megan Cardone joined the West Point Band in March of 2011. This gives cadets going into their final years of pre-commissioning training the opportunity to experience life in an active duty unit. The reason you would place cadets above enlisted in the rank chart is because they will be officers. Enough of my rant! Does the cadet need to be regularly assigned to a Cadet billet? He has developed the course SS493 Music & Influence, which he teaches in the Department of Social Sciences. Cadets were not entitled to receive salutes from enlisted personnel. I practice it for all things because that was my mom golden rule from childhood to yesterday (dementia stole her from me). As others have commented, folks should remember that those Cadets that you give a hard time to will in a short time become those officers that are in charge of writing your NCOERs never mind the fact that they also will be your leaders when deployed in a combat zone ( I served in the 1st Cav Div during Desert Shield and Storm), in other words garbage in equals garbage out. Pro-Tip: Don't make a blog post, offer a comment section, then expect not to be schooled by your elders, especially when taking a condescending tone. Requirements for a USAF Aviation Cadet at the time were two years of college and passing scores on a series of IQ and skills tests such as mathematics, logic, and spatial relations. Mark C. Quander Brigadier General , US Army 79th Commandant of Cadets My NCOs treated me with respect while I was a midshipman, but taught me what it meant. Long story short: Years of hands-on experience trumps reading an instruction manual, This applies in every situation and every single time. After enlisting in the US Army in 1984 as a Field Artillery surveyor, Master Sergeant (Promotable) Jeffrey Morris found his way to the Cyber Branch via the Air Force Institute of Technology in Ohio, earning a PhD in Systems Engineering and a follow-on assignment as the Sergeant Major of the Army Cyber Institute at West Point. I just wished the device had been turned on when he was messing with the ground strap. First, what an insult to a SNCO that instead of a 1SG with 10 plus years of experience leading soldiers in the absence of officers A Cadet would be next in succession. They act only under the auspices of their supervising physician. Mr. Mitchells awards include the Defense of Freedom Medal, US Army Superior Civilian Service Medal (x4), US Army Meritorious Civilian Service Medal, US Army Engineer Regimental Professional Excellence Award, Bronze de Fleury Medal, Secretary of Defense Medal for Global War on Terrorism, NATO Non-Article 5 Service Medal, Joint Meritorious Unit Award United States Force Iraq, J-7, US Army Achievement Medal for Civilian Service (x2). Now it was said in good humor. But only a complete cadidiot would get his or her cadet rank confused with an NCOs authority and influence. I would argue that the NCO/CO rivalries have started as a result of more modern times as compared to past wars and generations and honestly it should stop. He previously served as Music Arranger and NCOIC of Sound, Staging, and Lighting at the 113th Army Band "Dragoons" in Fort Knox, Kentucky. At the time the pipeline for commissioned officers in the Air Force was ROTC, OCS, Aviation Cadets, and the new USAF Academy whose first class graduated circa 1958. Throughout his career as both an Airman and Civilian, he has served in numerous assignments at locations: n Chief, Public Works Fort Eustis, VA Practice ought to comport with policy. Ask any SJA. Is a cadet a regularly assigned Army Soldier? If you're not an Infantry Officer then to us you're an NPC because you lack skills and experience. Or a sergeant major for that matter. So fairly similar arrangement as with cadets. How dare enlisted swine preside over a command position? I respect ALL Personnel of the US ARMED FORCES and Civilians appointed over me. I spent 3 years as a MSG and never saluted a cadet. CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. Is anyone able to give me a solid answer to this question? That one NCO who doesn't give a crap about you is the one you should be talking to. Of course there is a certain type of officer who fails to get it. Sir. Prior to joining the West Point Band, Staff Sergeant Rivers interned at Billboard Magazine and Knopf Publishing. Prior to his assignment at West Point, Sergeant Major Schlegel was assigned to the U.S. Army Medical Command Band at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, where he served as the personnel and administration branch chief and performed as principal trumpet in the Concert Band, Jazz Combo, and Rock Band. DeCA, West Point Commissary adjust . No Salute should be required or rendered. Officers and NCO's must realize alike that, they way you treat your future Officers (NCO's case) and the way you treat your subordinates (Officers case) will dictate how the military can and will be run in the future. I work with my leadership and learn from them and they help to shape me to become a good officer. And keep your mouth open and eyes covered with your hands when it or any other explosion goes off near you. but after I had earned my keep so to speak he spent a lot of time teaching and mentoring this Dot head and when I was commissioned he took time off from his civilian job to come to the commissioning ceremony to congratulate me. WO1s even as appointed Officers are subject to all provisions of the UCMJ even art 33. 319th Civil Engineering Squadron. What comes after is when the real learning begins. (2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. Through conversations, we get better LT's coming out of ROTC or NCO's newly converted to O grade.. of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service Without these people, "How do you become "ELite"! This author wrote an excellent piece. While it might be fun to haze the new margarine bar (he hasnt even worked his way up to butter bar yet), is that really the impression you want him taking with you when he gets commissioned and reports to his first unit? The Army isnt some pay your dues ol boys club anymore. So you are incorrect when you say that Cadets outrank me. Sergeant Major Schlegel earned his Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma (Process Improvement) in 2016, and is actively involved in building the process improvement community at West Point. CDT Vincent High marks! Some of the comments left in this thread have really let me down. Hope this was brief enough for you or TL:DR? I was an Air Force Aviation Cadet during the late 1950's. Without our outstanding NCO Corps counterparts, there would be no outstanding officers. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. Every single SNCO I've come in contact with in ROTC has developed me as an Officer. While in New York, she won second prize in the Alexander and Buono International Flute Competition. I had another LT in one of the other shops stop me almost with tears in his eyes that I had just salutes 2 other 1LTs on the way into the building and while laughing explained me to that LTs did not salute each other. Cadets are never saluted. So there I was no shot, at my first unit on JBLM, WA as a 2LT and I thought that based on what I was taught that you salute all superior officers.